I feel that I must make this post as I object to the tack that this forum is taking. I have been a member for a number of months and have tried on the whole to contribute fully to the forum and I object to the post that has been allowed to remain which is an advertisement for a company that deals in electricity and gas supply.

The post should be removed as I feel strongly that one of the reasons that I personally signed up and continue to contribute to CCV has been it's stance against advertising. Advertising now seems to be acceptable and I feel that the forum is the poorer for it. I assume that the company involved have not paid for advertising space?

"energylinx makes no charges to consumers for the use of our services, we are funded via the small commissions payable by the electricity and gas suppliers should you decide to enter into a new supply contract with them via our website. Commission payments received do not in any manner affect the ranking of those suppliers within our calculators"

I am sorry but basically this company has been given free advertising via CCV, as a business I would assume that they have a marketing budget (out of the I am sure paltry reward or commissions from the suppliers). This has given them an advantage in the market compared to their competitors who are banned from advertising their wares on CCV....

Why has this advantage been provided? I did a check at company’s house and they have not been in the market that long, therefore I would not really entertain their business unless I could trace their director’s activities and history. Why John have you given this company and not the multitude of others the opportunity? Is it because they are registered in Stirling?

I would urge the community (especially the regular contributors), to voice any objections that you have to this policy unless everyone can have the free space for advertising. If Energylinx give CCV a small slice of the money they make via the referrals then perhaps the charge levied to make contributors 'Gold Members' could be dropped?

Regards,

Ian

Hi Ian,

You voice some interesting concerns. Just to make things crystal clear - CCV is against the use of its forums for free advertising purposes, but we are always trying out new approaches. In this case we felt we would try allowing this ad (after discussion with its author) on the basis that contact would be via CCV as a kind of 'referral'.

Whilst this does, to a small extent, run somewhat against the grain of our stance on advertising, we also realised that it would be an interesting opportunity for our members and I'll be frank when I explain that the take-up of premium memberships has not been as comprehensive as I would like. Therefore, we are always looking at ways of providing that little bit more to premium members to entice standard members to upgrade.

Whilst we steer the community as our members see fit, we also have to accept the realities of operating a site of this complexity - and that means exploring new avenues which can generate funding which will help us keep CCV independent and self-funding. At the moment, the commercial reality is that though we have offered advertising space at almost giveaway prices, the up-take was very poor and we have temporarily shelved that idea in favour of the Google ads, which cover our basic operational costs. As things currently stand, this site needs to attract more premium-level members and the inclusion of this ad was part experiment and part favour. Oh, and I had no idea they were registered in Stirling. First I had heard of it, and that's the truth.

We have some choices here at CCV:

Continue as we currently are, relying on AdSense revenue*;
Form partnerships with corporates in some way, increasing revenue but jeopardising independence;
Develop the site and its policies to entice more people into premium-level memberships.

To be frank once more, I'm glad you have brought this up though you must understand that it was done with the best intentions and I would welcome others' views on this. Our 2004 plan for CCV is to be able to survive as a completely independent entity, self funding and with enough to recoup the tens of thousands of pounds this site cost to develop in time and costs. That way we can stabilise and provide a firm foundation to grow from - but to do this we need to raise funds and attracting new premium members is fundamental to this goal.

Anyone else care to comment - for or against our experiment?

John

* Oh, and it helps if members support our advertisers - in doing so you'll help support the running costs for this site, and as the ad says "every little helps"

The only thing I would say about this particular instance is although the person 'advertising' doesn't have an email address showing on his profile, given that we know the company name and website, it wouldn't be too hard to make contact without paying for the membership upgrade to access ccvm, if one was so inclined....

Theres a trade off with any free site, usually its advertising. CCV has done well to avoid this trade off by resisting it.

From my perspective (and other's) I've contributed knowledge and advice and get no financial return just a benevolent satisfied smile and my words immortalised in perpetuity. What's the worth of that to me ? Well that's something I have to weigh up and also be careful I dont give away valuable information for free.
Is it enough of a payback? My jury is still out.

As regards CCV I think they would do well to take a leaf out of other forums and charge memebrs in order to be able to read tenders. That in my book is fair game, it could also force those particular readers to read pop ups ands ads tenders - those readers are lets face it, out for commercial gain.

On the whole I find the altruistic approach commendable however it seems to have lost steam and asking members to harvest new memebrs when there is nothing in it for them seems to have fallen on deaf ears. I think also momentum itself is being lost, there are no more real 'ding dong' debates - they've all been had and long standing memebres cant be bothered to regurgitate them. That said perhaps this is natural progression for web forums, as the archive grows the interaction becomes more like a library and discourse lessens. This is of some concern to me I do see the number of daily posts lessening and the willingness to debate and act like a forum changing to the extent that most users ask a question (usually poorly) get the answer and arent heard of again.

Perhaps this is all natural evolution and perhaps I live in cloud cuckoo land. I wont go on for fear no one (aside from John) bothers to read or contribute significantly to my response.

Interesting thread, I think you will find that advertising in a subtle way would be me adding my auto signature.

The post regarding the request for contact from companies wishing to discuss the provision of a possible service is not advertising.

Advertising
To make public announcement of, especially to proclaim the qualities or advantages of (a product or business) so as to increase sales.

If someone was wishing to procure a service and requested our help or contact is this necessarily advertising.

I don't think so.

Jason

OK, folks.

If we were to introduce such a facility, how much would you be prepared to pay per advert in a new advertising forum area? Premium members would either have discounted (in the case of Silver level members) or free (in the case of Gold level members) posting 'levies' for adding adverts in the commercial area.

This is something we were planning anyway, but your comments would be welcome. We haven't set any charges yet so it is open for discussion. Bear in mind the fact that any posted advert could be viewed by thousands of call centre professionals worldwide, so your 'net' would be cast wide.

I'm all ears...

John

IMHO:
It's a we've got work, not a can you give us work post.

We all tolerate the 'How do I get work' posts and at the same time rally against the 'I've got a call center here give us a job' posts.

This to me is a genuine offer from someone who has a campaign to place.

No-one complained about the Penguin Products stuff can't see the difference myself :-)

At the same time we do have a no ad's policy and AFAIC that means (as has been discussed before) this is touting a business or service.

I know I'll get flamed for this but AS AN EXAMPLE....

NOT AN AD:

Hi I'm zzzzzzz I've a training job I can't handle and need 2 trainers for basic phone skills in the West Midlands area for 2 weeks. You can contact me on xxxx@yyyy

IS AN AD:

Hi I'm zzzzzz if anyone requires skills training for their phone staff in the West Midlands I've 2 weeks free between campaigns starting on the 18th of March. Competative rates ADSL, IP enabled trainer with own Offshore Ferrari. Contact xxxx@yyyy for more details.

Just my 2p of course!

DaveA

But I've got a job.... :-)

we all try it. I have a particular beef with another forum I contribute to, its much mroe commercial than this one and they ahve deliberate policy to

Answers MUST provide helpful comments to assist both the questioner and other interested readers which must be visible on the site. Blatant promotion of your own business services and postings which ask the questioner to simply contact offline, without providing helpful information on the forum itself will be removed.

Trouble is they dont have the time to read every posting so somtimes they get through now persoanlly I dont mind the old one man band slipping in the odd autosignature here and there (even though I have a vested interst myself). Its when you get the big law firms offering advice and specialisation with a web link at the bottom and the feel free to call us.

How do you make the disctinction and one man bands may grow to become bigger companies.

Its difficult and at the end of the day its Johns baby and he's allowed to do as he pleases whether or not we agree. Good on ya John.

PS. Did I mention I'm available for....(censored again!)
PPS. Date I will of course be sending you a 28 page brochure detailing the depth of my experience as well as the wheel base of my Ferrari.

As is currently proven I dont think people will pay to advertise. Those with money know and understand the likely returns from this scattergun marketing approach. They'd have move in long ago. You cant qualify or target your customers or readers.

I do think people will PAY FOR ACCESS to ; tenders, knowledge, databases if the potential reward is big enough.