I was wondering what steps any UK subscribers had made to deal with the incoming Age Discrimination Laws.

How will you be making your call centre more friendly towards older staff?
How will you be combatting ageism within a predominently under 25yr old workforce?
Will you still be running motivational quizzes, nights out down the pup, tickets for latest indie bands? How will you and they cope with a greyer generation and prejudice?

For me this is an interesting debate, young staff often have limited outside commitments, plenty of energy, enthusiasm and a willingless to work unsociable hours. You could call it naivity and inexperience.

Older staff often have more employer experience, responsibilities elsewhere, other commitments including families and children and a good deal more reticence when dealing with demanding empoyers wishing them to have availabilty from 0700-2200 plus weekends.

Work-life balance would seem to go hand in hand with age and responsibilities encountered as a result of age and circumstances.

The trouble with these discrimination laws is that they scare people into taking things the other way.

Consider the comment:

young staff often have limited outside commitments, plenty of energy, enthusiasm and a willingless to work unsociable hours

I don't think anyone would disagree with that. So, what you need to do is ensure that you recruit staff because they have these attributes, not because their age group generally has these attributes.

This will probably result in you recuiting mostly young people, and that's fine. You're just recruiting suitable people for the job, regardless of age. Anything else would be positive discrimination.

young staff often have limited outside commitments,

Pardon :-)

Can't work a late shift because xxxx (Insert latest excuse / reality TV show / Pub here)


I know you mean family etc... by commitment.

A quick look around the office here would give (including myself)
an average age (At a guess) of about 40.

On the Customer services dept's I'd actually say we tend more toward the 35-50
age band than anything else.


By compliance do we mean 'affirmative action' yet :-)

(Light Blue touch paper and retire to a safe distance)

DaveA

I've encountered many situations (for a wide spectrum of clients) where operational managers have fought hard to reject older candidates usually on the grounds that the wouldnt 'fit in'with the existing team.

The recruitment phrase cited is not a good 'cultural fit'. This often means your more mature thinking doesnt fit in with our younger staff and their outlooks.

In outsourced sales environments often its a 22-26year old team manager on an O/B sales team of the same age, they like to have KISS FM blaring aware whilst they 'big up' the team. They create a 20's culture which reinforces a young team. This is passively endorsed by the call centre management and the client who likes the idea of a buzzy happening team.

I agree with all this best practice but when your client is looking for young and happening the reality is its all to easy for management to push the law.

(PS. Why has this suddenly become a members only topic? I was aiming it at everyone)

..dunno. I didn't move it, did you Dave?

Not me,

Which forum did you post to?

As far as I can see it has 'always been here' {1}

I'll move it if you let me know.

DA

Actually I'll move it anyway :-)

{1} 10 Points if anyone can get the Sci-Fi reference.
(NickA you're excluded you know it already)

Suddenly when I wrote my second post it appeared in members only, now its not there.......now it keeps losing my posts!!.............there are things out there that we just dont know about......

Mostly I will be hiding under the bedclothes...

I'm going to report you to John!

Seriously though, it looks like a return of the phantom post issue again.

I'll lose the dupes.

It did it honestly, I posted in the box and then it was blank when it appeared on the forum. Logged out and back in again and it was fine.

I had a similar problem a few months ago, couldn't figure it out at all.

It's even better if it happens with a brand new post (rather than a reply), as I remember you couldn't view it, so you couldn't delete it. Great fun.

They're gone now...and all my suplus-to-requirement-posts have bumped my post count up nicely. D.A.'ll come along and delete them now...you just watch!

Moi?

I don't think that a second reply to a thread up's the count.

I think it's just new threads and 1st replies that count.
I may be wrong though.

>>>So, what you need to do is ensure that you recruit staff because they have these attributes, not because their age group generally has these attributes.

>>>This will probably result in you recuiting mostly young people, and that's fine.

A wise employer would be well advised to look further than this as there is more to it. Where you advertise can lead to discrimination you will need to think how you can reach different age groups. Young people are more likely to use careers services, jobcentres and newspapers. Older people often rely on community and business networks.
Jobs specs can lead to discrimination (eg only asking for GCSE's - some of us might not have sat GCSE's). Is your sifting process age compliant? Are you only seeking medicals from predominently older candidates?

Careful monitoring is required to track those age groups you are not attracting.

Have all your recruitment and training staff been trained in equal ops? Have your recruitment agencies instigated an Age Discrimination policy? Are you team leaders age aware?

Wow!!...I'm off to find some consultancy work there's a goldmine here.

"I think it's just new threads and 1st replies that count. I may be wrong though."

Indeed. All posts count, even those in quarantine or the admin only forum. Which are only rumoured to exist. Honest. Don't go looking for them. Anyway, I win, because I'm aiming to coincide my 1000th post on the sites 4th birthday (Saturday)...

John

PS. Phantom new topics are fun, aren't they. But there is a way...

>>>I'm aiming to coincide my 1000th post on the sites 4th birthday (Saturday)...


There is more to life. When I think of all the loft achievements of mankind.. we put people on the moon you know....words fail me......have you thought about taking up a hobby?...evening classes...? getting out a bit?....

:-)

;-)

There is more to life. When I think of all the loft achievements of mankind.. we put people on the moon you know....words fail me......have you thought about taking up a hobby?...evening classes...? getting out a bit?....


I am surprised he isn't much higher :). A few forums I have been at more than a year or two I already have 5000+ posts

I have never found ageism to be that large of an issue. I am a relatively young middle management/telephony expert. I have no real trouble talking to 20 year olds and no trouble talking to 40 year olds (with my age being 24).

This UK Act comes into force next month

Think now about training employees and managers. It is likely that conduct which pre-dates the introduction of the Regulations could be used as evidence to support a claim.

Other issues which ought to be considered include retirement, recruitment, pay and benefits, insured benefits, pensions, harassment.

Ageist harassment is made unlawful by the Regulations. Banter and jokes which may be seen as harmless now could be used as evidence of an ageist work place and support a discrimination claim.

Are you prepared??

When the law changes many of our practices that we take for granted may be illegal or at very least open to serious challenge...ie asking for X number of years post qualification experience would need to objectively justified, you might also need to objectively justify why you need a graduate (as people under 21 couldn't be grad's) etc etc

Seminars often point out that the main beneficiaries of age discrimmination legislation in the States were white middle aged men...who made heafty claims when they were overlooked for promotion....this may be an interesting new avenue for employment law!

http://www.personneltoday.com/34373.article

Very useful document

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd5/rports2005-2006/rrep325.pdf

I understand that these new laws are now in place, so this is surely a breach of them.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5070642.stm.