I'm going to disagree.

I have an opinion, I can voice my opinion.

However as I've said above regardless of where CCV is based the content HAS to be unbiased.

We have a worldwide membership therfore it is self defeating for CCV to have a view / position / stance.

I can, John can, Lindsay can, Zoe can. But CCV cannot.

I personally find it regrettable that jobs migrate, however as has been stated above this is driven by global economics. The parallel is there to manufacturiing in the 70's with the death of car making (both here, Japan, Detroit and Europe) when the first Robots came on the scene.

The call center industry is a new industry, it emerged with the birth of the 'Service Culture' in the last 15 years. Is it not logical that as an industry matures and grows it expands? Would you have thought that the 2nd best seller of small cars in the UK would be Korean or the impact of Chinese expansion into electronics would drive the advancement of technology in Japan rather thank kill Sony, JVC, Panasonic, Matsushita etc.

As I said I don't have to be impartial but CCV does.

I'm not sure of the exact demographics but I'd wager that the majority of the membership here are not UK based. With that said I'll reiterate my point (I knew I'd get there sooner or later).

i) Jobs migrating is regrettable.

ii) The UK CANNOT compete on cost.

iii) Public pressure will drop off to nothing as soon as the press find another
trade to hound.

iv) Just as a thought, the outcry is about what was descibed as 'Dark Satanic Mills' only 3 years ago.

I know you'll disagree but that's my opinion.

HTH

DaveA

Thanks Dave,

I do understand the individual can make a decision. However being picky so can the organ itself, you run it and like any board member you can make your board voting decisions on whatever grounds you care to pay heed to.
Corporate execs have to pay heed to their shareholders but you guys aint even paid for this, why do you have such a skewed allegiance? You arent running a global call centre charity offering aid to all asundry. I already asked 'the panel' to do something to defend UK jobs but the unelected panel decided to use their own judgement to make a decision - relying on the lack of decisions made by a partial subscriber base - this is a cockeyed form of democracy and very inconsistent thinking.

The willingness to 'lose one's job' but no willingness to defend it. The championing of globalisation but no one volunteering to 'donate' their job overseas for the sake of a needy cause and a developing nation.

I put up a strong case to defend UK jobs but you guys yourselves talked me out of it - now I am actively working AGAINST YOU - even Paul who lost his job sat ON THE FENCE again. People seem to have lost the will to champion any cause these days - no wonder the fervent are able to succeed.

We're all doomed.
I rest my case m'lud.

I do understand the individual can make a decision. However being picky so can the organ itself, you run it and like any board member you can make your board voting decisions on whatever grounds you care to pay heed to.
Corporate execs have to pay heed to their shareholders but you guys aint even paid for this, why do you have such a skewed allegiance?

Allegiance to what or whom? I would have thought it was the exact opposite :-)

It appears that our attempting impartiality is what is reaping your wrath :-)

The willingness to 'lose one's job' but no willingness to defend it.

Maybe, but that is on a case by case basis. We all know people who've been affected by migration.

I'm from Watford I actually witnessed the death of 3 Printworks and the Rolls Royce Engine plant in the space of 3 years. At the time it was touted as the death of the town. Tech moved in along with other industry, I have a friend who grew up in Worksop during the miners strike and the end of teh NCD, she saw 4 pits close in the space of a year. Again other industry / services have moved in.

now I am actively working AGAINST YOU

Sorry to hear that I didn't realise it was an us and them situation.

At the moment you seem to want to push the Pax Britannica with the Atlas red again, we are ALL in the trade that is why we are here.

I don't think that'll do anything to change your mind but...

DaveA

>>It appears that our attempting impartiality is what is reaping your wrath :-)


Yes - you arent being neutral you guys actually have a view but wont do anything about that either - ie. pro globalisation - but more than that I object to the hazy way this decision was made, a few unelected moderators asked for a few opinions and and got them from a few westerners who bothered to respond with a one sided view constructed upon Western values and morals and then said that'll be our viewpoint then.

Thats not democratic its also might not be what the subscribers want - you havent asked all of them to vote. I bet if you asked enough of them to vote the plentiful sub-continent subscribers would want CCV to champion outsourcing and actively promote it and I'll bet there would a lot of them that could vote on the subject. This would no doubt change your viewpoint again.

I now ask the panel to champion outsourcing ie. to promote it and publicise its benefits instead of remaining neutral and to put it to the vote - clearly the contributors so far want it and no doubt the sub-continent does as well - I do also. So thats settled then?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/3630606.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3679468.stm

first sorry for caps but I have to specify this in not the opinion of my employer. "IS OFFSHORING NOT WHAT MADE BRITAIN GREAT IN THE FIRST PLACE AND PUT US IN A POSITION WHERE WE RULLED APPROX 3RD OF THE CIVILISED WORLD"

Nick it is also worth noting that we did at one point have an Empire which spanned over a third of the earth but it turned out to be more trouble than it was worth so we packed it in "that ring any bells" numerous companies who have outsourced to India have already returned with there tails between there legs.

Jason

A United Nations study released this month , cites the UK as the third fastest growing call centre location for 2002-2003 with 43 call centre projects being completed. This compares to India with 60 and Canada with 56.
More than half of all international call centre projects are located in developed countries (contrary to popular belief).
The study also cites UK call centre jobs as increasing by 100,000 by 2007.

I thought these facts would assist to put this discussion in context.

If I can be of any further assistance please feel free to email me at ctaylor@thetaylorreachgroup.com

Colin

If we feel duty bound to protect industry & jobs in the UK, how much further down the level do we take it?

Should businesses take the decision not to outsource any of there processes, but instead protect local jobs by developing in house capabilities?A typical example is trainers, who often travel up & down the country delivering training that many other companies choose to run internally. Should external consultants refuse to travel outside of their electoral district, and especially boycott jobs offered in areas of high unemployment? Should the government introduce job catchment areas to help bring down the North/South divide?

OK so this is taking things to the extreme, but the point is that companies have the right & need (in fact from a share holder point of view the imperative) to implement the most suitable operational arrangements for their processes, and this often means outsourcing. Due to the UK market position, the most cost effective option is often to put projects out to the developing world.
If UK BPO operations can provide a better proposition, then I believe UK businesses will jump at the chance.

John

As a suggested solution to the moderator's dilema of wishing to state a personal opinion without appearing to compromise the sites impartiallity, how about creating moderator ids that dehumanise them. One shared moderator id for moderating - that way it is a faceless procedure and now accusations of personal bias - and then they can continue to contribute as individuals through their own id. This will also take away any perception that the contributions by moderators hold extra weight - no offence but being a moderator in a web forum does not make someone an authority on the moderated subject; even though I think the moderators here are pretty perceptive this is due to their industry position not there role @ CCV.

'tis just an idea but 'tis a just idea

http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2003/10/21/the-flight-to-india/#more-787

"As a suggested solution to the moderator's dilema of wishing to state a personal opinion without appearing to compromise the sites impartiallity, how about creating moderator ids that dehumanise them. One shared moderator id for moderating - that way it is a faceless procedure and now accusations of personal bias - and then they can continue to contribute as individuals through their own id."

I missed this first time around - but I'm glad I caught it now. It's a good idea and one that I have often wondered about. Rather than derail this particular topic, though, I've created another topic for discussing whether this will help make the distinction between the impartial, independent 'official CCV' and its moderators.

Please feel free to add to that topic - it's something we ought to explore more readily.

Thanks,

John