I must admit to getting a little bit peeved by all those contributors who ask for help/advice or solutions yet NEVER give anything back. I'm of the opionion that they are simply using this resource as a manual. Perhaps they dont have experience or perhaps they are too lazy. Is this forum really a forum to discuss issues or has it become sidetacked into supplying solutions to those who lack the experience to look elsewhere and prefer to use rather than share.

Perhaps my viewpoint may be considered an ungenerous but there are jobs deisappearing overseas on the very solutions that are offered. There are deals and profits being made, is this a forum with value or a feeding ground for the exploitative?
There's a thin line between sharing ideas and advice and actively furthering your own business goals with critical business data and strategies. All to often I think the forum is moving towards to latter.

Perhaps you dont agree, perhaps there are some who are unable to give back but the types of postings and blatant commercial interest speaks for itself.

Without being too long-winded about it, anyone that has looked at game theory knows how effective tit-for-tat is.

If someone asks for help, give them help-- once. If they do not reciprocate, they should get no help from anyone until they do, and the word should be spread about their failure to reciprocate.

Eventually all the deals and profits will flow to those who reciprocate, because adopting tit-for-tat leads others to adopt tit-for-tat. As far as the exploiters are concerned, it's a low-information forum, so payback for misbehavior arrives late or never, unless people organize it. It will attract exploiters, that's inevitable.

Generally a Newbie's first foray into any forum will be with a question. They may not yet have encountered a topic they can comment on or are too shy to speak out in the face of so many experts. Sometimes if you answer them or lead them out they can become an active and valuable member in the forum. If we all ignore the questions of the newbies, then it will just be us talking to each other and we will have no influx of new ideas.

Of course there are those that have been around and will 'use' the people of this forum as free labor or as a resource for answers they should be able to find on their own. If you think it's a truly stupid question, don't answer it. If they have 'taken advantage of' you or someone else that you know of in the past, don't answer them either.

Please try not to let some bad apples spoil the whole batch for you.

Marianne

Hi all,

I completely agree with Marianne, not just because i am a newbie:).

Whenever someone plan to open up a call center, especially in the countries where this CC business is not matured, they do not have the clear ideas about how to go for a Perfect Call Center. And when you are entering into any business you need to have a clean and clear picture of the grounds on what you are going to play. In that case they can think of hiring a Consultant, Ok Fine! NP, but still you cant expect much from a consultant because they also doesn’t have those many deeds to satisfy the company instincts, as they are also new to the business. At that time these kinds of International Forums, which are meant for professional people proves really helpful.

And just because of some “immature and unprofessional” people, you can’t neglect the presence of these upcoming newbies. I think that you can’t expect good from everyone, you go into any field or profession, and you will definitely find some of the spoiled fishes, but because of those few we cant neglect the new born. Everyone needs help/suggestion in this world from experienced and matured people, who already walked on that path, so that they should not face the same problems. The more number of minds working on the same task, increase the probability of exploring the unexplored part of the business, which can prove helpful to all of us. And to increase that number you need to help, not just for their good, but for the whole industry to remain fresh and full of excitement.

If the business remains good, I guess we all would smile. So my conclusion is that “even if some of the people are taking advantage of your knowledge, let them do that because if they want to remain in the business, they will constantly need guidance and co-operation. So they have only one chance to prove their intentions.”

I thank the people behind the CCV to create such a wonderful informative site that is definitely helping this industry to grow.

“Lets together make the environment of CC industry co-operative and friendly.”
Thanks!

The problem I see here is that most of the people who just ask questions, have no clue about the CC business and its processes. As I see it, the Indian CC industry is flooded with people who have cash but not the expertise or the know how to actually set up and run a successful Call Center. Small wonder that we get to see some posts that have me in guffaws here. People who use this forum just to get leads, imo fail in that effort. I think its only when you exchange ideas and thoughts that you can build relationships.

Hello,

I must admit that i am one of the guilty ones who take rather than give, though i have given some input at times. But its not that I have nothing to contribute, its just that, to me this is like a resource pool to get information from more experienced proff.

But hey, i will try from now on to contribute.

I hope you guys dont knock my head on this, but i need help. I am actually looking for people working in the quality or project departments in customer service call centres to contact. Bascically to exchange ideas on work.

Hope you can help.

I understand the human need for compassion and altruism but...

It's bigger than newbies, its jobs disappearing overseas....potentially your own (given time)...or do we all think we play no part in it?

Hi,

Your observation is on losing jobs is really interesting. Well, i suppose one of the objectives of forums such as these is to serve as a resource pool for information for newbies as well as experienced hands. Information can be obtained in discussion threads or "help threads". And both of these do help in not only increasing the skill capacity of the call centre workers, but it also serves as a global encyclopedia or real life info and data.

Even if there is a terrible misuse of such forums, how do we tackle the problem? Should we ban answering questions on topics posted? Its close to impossible actually. Thus, i suppose we just need to give and take.

But its interesting, really to think that jobs could be lost due to too much free information on forums!

I have read through all these postings and I fully agree. I would like to suggest that all those who are members of this forum would have to make some sort of contribution to be allowed to participate in any kind of information exchange. I had earlier suggested that we have a special forum of call center trainers where we could all pool our resources and discus issues indept.......yeah you guessed right. There was no response. I still would like to reiterate that we need to have this done. We should remember that this forum should be treated like a bank acccount. You can withdraw but you alos have to deposit to earn that right.

Regards

Hi Joseph,

I would starkly choose to disagree on your suggestion. If you do set up such a thing, you are stripping a forums very nature, its openess of resource and information. Also, what if people start inputting junk or "not so valuable" thought, just to get into the forum? What will happen then?

Today, i read in the papers that an American bank employee committed suicide after losing his job after it was outsourced to another country. The grieving father wrote" The loss of the job is not due to the fault of the country which it was outsourced to, rather to the American system" urging MNC's to relook into job loss.

Taking this and other things into account, we should not adopt the "i give only if you give" attitude, along all our lives, we have learnt many a valuable lesson or note for free, where we did not have to pay. Lets appeal to the "lurkers" rather than to do something drastic. Look at me, i am a perfect example!

" The loss of the job is not due to the fault of the country which it was outsourced to, rather to the American system"

Mmmm have to concur, global capitalism seems to blame. Only this week in the the shareholders of SmithKline Beecham UK narrowly defeated the board by voting against a £22million bonus for him for FAILURE (ie. if he fails or gets sacked he still gets £22M). The 'reward'was justified by saying that its the only way they can keep apace with US salaries.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3038381.stm

ROI is one thing but people form part of the I.

Well I have to say there are some interesting views on this one. I am one of the newbies in a developing country, and for the first time that I actually put effort into it, I found a forum where people freely and openly discuss the topics and provide expert experience. I am still fairly new to the call centre industry and find that I have more to learn than to give. The only way I will ever grow and make this a viable career for myself is to read the items that everyone else publishes. My view is that I would rather listen to others than open my mouth and say something that everyone else has already thought of.

Like myself, I believe there are others that do the same. When I have something to add, I do, but it goes back to the old adage, garbage in garbage out. I apologise if my type are viewed as leeches but we have nowhere else to go and learn. If anything I think you all should be honoured that us newbies are looking to you for guidance. It's the only way we will ever get to where you are at. In future I will try and add more value, but I can only do this where I have experience, which is limited.

I have to say that I am all in favour of newbies asking without necessarily giving. If you have nothing new to offer then why waste time rehashing the existing comments? On the other hand I don't think newbies should feel they have nothing to offer - often it is a fresh perspective that allows us to revisit our "accepted wisdom" and move the industry forward. While I believe there are some excellent postings in this forum, I have yet to see one that would enable me to work on a project without having a decent level of base understanding. Jobs arer going overseas because of operational base costs, not because I help someone by giving them the basic principles when looking at a start-up, or explaining the term SLA. There are always conflicting posts, as we all have different ways of doing things - if I were to try and start a business based purely on forum posts I would not know where to start, who to believe, or how the hell to carry on!

I believe many people use this as a kick start to their own thought process, and we should feel privellaged to be in a position to share our expertise. While I do not agree that this looses jobs, I do believe that people have the opportunity through these forums to build their reputation and profile within the industry, and that contributing regularly to these forums may in fact create job opportunities for the people who do so.

I will routinely look at the topic lists, and if something strikes me as being an area in which I can add value then I try and do so, however I do not have the time to search all posts just in case someone is missing out on my "wisdom".
Is there another way we could structure the posts on this forum? The broad categories used tend to be liberally interpreted... If posts were listed by specifc knowledge or skills then I would be a far more frequent (and hopefully valuable) resource and happy to help whenever possible. Perhaps a panel of experts could be listed - people happy to share their knowledge and skills in a particular field? One for the CCV team...

My own area is operational design, contact centre management practice, and start ups - please all feel free to contact me if you feel I have any knowledge to share... the mere process of sharing a disucssion is one that I feel benefits ME.

(ps. run out of time so no spell check - please don't let my keyboard dislexia distract you from my point!)

I would have to agree with Mr. O'Sullivan-- "jobs are going overseas because of operational base costs", and not because of information exchange. My objection to 'taking without giving' is that it negatively impacts this particular forum, when people who could contribute choose to free-ride instead.

As far as what Mr. Mills states-- "I would rather listen to others than open my mouth and say something that everyone else has already thought of"-- do not let your ego keep you from offering a contribution. Everyone else may already have thought of it, *or* they may not. If you are wondering about the answer to a particular question, chances are excellent that someone else is, too. One of the benefits of an 'anonymous' forum like this is that your ego does not have to be at stake. At the very least, you will have had unique experiences that the rest of us can learn from.

To Ms. Sara S.-- you are not one of the guilty ones, because you DO contribute. I think what Mark started this thread by objecting to is (1) advertising, (2) using strategic information without ever contributing, even when contributing costs you nothing.

And finally: I don't think CC Voice postings contribute to job migration. Operational base costs are responsible, not information exchange. This is just developing countries moving up the value-chain, a process that has been going on for 500-odd years, and *started* when European countries began doing it. The leaders just have to innovate or die.

And as an aside, blaming global capitalism for **obscene** CEO salaries-- or job migration-- is far too general. As you indirectly point out, this is largely an Anglo-American disease. Look at Germany, France, Japan, and you will not see this-- their chief execs are overpaid, but not as obscenely. This is one of the distortions of the Anglo-American processes of corporate governance. I think its important to keep in mind that CEO pay is generally a very small element of a MNC's cost structures, while CEO misjudgment can be **enormously** costly.

The job migration also has a lot to do with the U.K.'s great success as a colonizing power. Please do not misinterpret me: it is simply beyond the pale to be a proponent of colonialism in this day and age. Yet this should not stop us from observing nuance-- I think you would be hard-pressed to find any colonized nation better off than those colonized by the U.K. When one includes the U.S., Hong Kong and Singapore, as former colonies, I do not think the debate can be entertained seriously.

The opportunity to do business into the worldwide English-language 'diaspora' is one of those benefits. I ultimately think this has enormously benefited the U.K. over several hundred years, and continues to do so today. Some call center jobs are lost to India. Ultimately, this means that the services U.K. consumers are buying come more cheaply, so they have more money to spend locally on something else-- creating other jobs.

From the North American perspective, U.K. living costs are wildly out of hand, and need to come down. Look at the Japanese, who (until recently) systematically pursued keeping as many jobs as possible locally. Their cost-of-living is obscene, their economy is stagnant, their labor productivity (except in export-led manufacturing) is **abysmal** and no fix is in sight.

Thanks Wiggle,

Interesting perspective and worth consideration
>>>I don't think CC Voice postings contribute to job migration. Operational base costs are responsible, not information
exchange

I agree you have identified one of several root causes however forum and information exchanges are the means of distribution, why then are there so many postings looking for sites, leads, set-ups you name it. Communications and solutions result in decisions thus contribution is undeniable whilst root cause lies elsewhere.

The vestiges of UK colonialism are no doubt a factor however I'm not at all sure this makes a convincing business case, American business models and working practices significantly influence and lead multinational thinking in whichever country. This very industry was born in the USA 10 years before Europe and the UK. What's wrong with blaming capitalism and generally too - it has given us cheap clothing produced in Asia, cheaper trainers (runners) produced in the Philippines, steel imports from Russia, electricity from France and now it's hit the call centre industry by finding a neat language/marketplace/costbase fix. Of course its been going on for centuries that doesn't mean its any good.

From the UK perspective its interesting that you have an opinion on what needs to come down in the UK and little considered thought for those displaced - damage to local economy, loss of skill sets, social impact, in Europe a factor we often identify in American culture is unilateralism.

http://www.computing.co.uk/Analysis/1138745
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2867073.stm

Truth be told, the arrogant Americans, their satanic business practices and greedy culture can be traced back as the root cause of most phenomena.

El Nino: The devastating impact of the El Nino weather anomaly can be traced back to the Boston Tea Party. Evidently, the Americans' rash decision to fight taxation without representation by throwing oodles of tea into the ocean, caused an algaeic mutation in the Atlantic ocean that is only now having calamitous affects to the weather patterns in the Pacific Ocean.

No Water on Mars: As recent reports have indicated, there was likely once water on Mars. Evidently, US astronauts, flying slightly off course, stopped on the red planet to resupply. With the typical American "if I see it, it's mine" attitude, the astronauts used up most of the Martian water, then sneakily pulled the drain plug on the remaining water, just to ensure that no one else could ever have it. Just as they must have done in ancient Egypt.

There's more:

Extinct Dinosaurs: Simple issue of overhunting, as Americans are never satisfied 'til they "get 'em all!".

North and South Polar Regions: Typical atmospheric response to the indulgent Americans leaving their refrigerator doors open, thus wasting energy and creating huge ice shelves thousands of years ago.

UFOs: American capitalistic tactic of stirring up fear of aliens, thus increasing the sales of Ron Popil's "Alien-tastic Stun Gun". ($9.99 a month for 24 months!)

SARS: Thinly disguised American-made virus that was supposed to just make people sick instead of killing them. To up American pharmaceutical revenues, of course.

There's more, there's more......

Think I'll take a break from the whole 'give and take' thing for a while, maybe give my old friend David Newton-Dines a call. Start hanging out back on my own side of the world. Feel free to drop me a line: bpreece@destex.com

Brent

I was shocked to see how someone can throw personal perspective to single out a country and a race. Please next time try to be a little more professional and get dull and dumb facts out of your brains about our great nation. Money making is a not a crime ...we are all here to make some .....live with it ...if not either work for a non profit organization or get a therapist

Sorry for missing out on the sarcasm ...my bad ( i hope there was a pun intended)

Let me begin by saying that we are digressing from the point. Sara what I did mean to say is that people are just taking without contributing. Let no one here say that they know all. Let us understand that we are all learning all the time and unless we can air our views new ideas will not and cannot be generated. The newbies should get this into their head, they may know something that the experienced don't. An intelligence bank account can only function if people put back something when they withdraw, even if it is the experience that they had when they used some idea from this forum, I guess that is not too much to ask for.

Hi Joseph,

Trust you are having a good day. Its awfully hot here in Singapore!

Well, i totally agree with you that everyone needs to contribute to this forum, new or old, experienced or inexperienced. I have no qualms or questions about that and i am all for it.

However i feel that your suggestion of having to contribute something before they are allowed to partcipate, something that i would not agree with. Firstly it would be a techincal headache for the administrator to allow access based on contributions and who is the judge of a "good contribution"? Lots of objectivity here to overcome.

Thats all....and its still so hot here!!!!